Post by Sersay on Nov 9, 2014 15:27:59 GMT -6
While I may not have been present for last night's PvP event, there are a few things i'v seen alot of that I wanted to address. But while thinking of how to address it, I ended up just recalling all of my points of knowledge i'v picked up from PvPing seriously in two large scale PvP games, point by point.
So rather than cover a few of our problem areas, might as well share everything I know, and every strategy and general rule of PvP i'v known and followed.
Movement:
This was the easiest thing for me to pick up on, but it may be hard for others, especially with the dreaded tunnel vision (I'll talk about that later)
Stay with the leader: As a group, there should always be a designated leader and a sub leader for a group. The rest of the group will always, ALWAYS stay with these members unless otherwise stated. That means sticking together. That means no wandering off, it means no chasing targets away from the group, it means staying as what we are, a -group-. This makes it easier to know whats going on, easier to keep everyone alive and accounted for, and keeps us at our FULLEST force for whatever may come our way, expected or unexpected. You need ALL hands on deck, especially for a nasty surprise. Breaking from the group dosint help the group.
-BUT! There's an exception to this.-
Stealthers and designated scouts can extend from the group as needed, but NEVER TOO FAR. And of course, NEVER if the leader does not want the stealthers/scouts away from the group. Unless it's a special case, the stealthers should only be extending from the group enough to get behind enemy lines, and either disable/silence or kill the backline enemy casters or healers. Depending on the number of enemys, a single stealther shouldint bother with backlines unless they are POSITIVE they can QUICKLY kill the key target healer/caster.
Never Charge Alone: It requires communication to make a proper charge as a group, do not charge alone and expect everyone else in the group to be behind you. Alot is going on in the heat of battle, people most likely wont notice your movement as a que for all of the to follow, before assuming your just moving normally in battle. Let the leader call when to charge forward.
Wait for group members for regrouping: So we wiped? Thats no good, time to get back together and attack again! But respawning can sometimes take varying times for different people, and one or two may still be trying to escape the loosing battle or dieing. If you respawn ahead of others, DO NOT immediantly ride off back to the fray. You will most likely meet the enemy again, alone. Then you just die needlessly. Throwing yourself at the enemy alone helps no one, and if the rest of the group moves to take the enemy? Well they are one short because you died ahead of them and are respawning again. DO NOT move out to attack an enemy again until the group has reformed and everyone is together. The leader or sub leader of the group should make sure everyone is respawned and together before heading out.
Never over-extend:(We need to work on this!) This is the easiest mistake to make, and it is easily the death of many in pvp. It's sooooo easy to get lost in tunnel vision, blood lust, lack of awareness. Dont let that happen. Some people may not have a problem with this, others may have to actively stop themselves. You cannot afford to let yourself run away from others. Dont let enemys -LURE- you away either. Thats exactily what they want you to do. A lone target is easier to kill than someone in a group of people. It may be harder to resist the bloodlust/tunnel vision in the heat of battle as someone is running away, but you can stop yourself. If there's a decent sized battle going on and an enemy that is nearly dead is running from you? Consider that he may not be worth chasing down and leaving the battle for. IF the group wipes the rest of the group, the lone deserter will die shortly after anyways. >
COMMUNICATION:
The fact that we are in vent already gives us an advantage, but we need to be smart with how we speak during pvp.
Minimal talking except for leaders: When shit is expected to hit the fan, or IS hitting the fan, chatter should be MINIMAL to avoid confusion. A Leader should be designated to call out commands during the battle, such as target this person, move here, fall back here, or protect this person. No other extra information should be thrown out there. It seriously will confuse the rest of us in a quickly changing situation.
But again! There are a few points where you SHOULD speak up!
IF YOU DIE, please, please PLEASE state that you are down. Only once. No need to repeat it unless we have someone who can rez, and you think the person may not have heard you.
If you see an unexpected surprise, such as another enemy group coming up from behind, CALL IT OUT! And do it WITH AS LITTLE DESCRIPTION AS POSSIBLE. Make it short, sweet and to the point. Like such: "Another group of reds coming in behind!" If someone else has already called out something important, dont repeat it, it just add un-needed chatter at that point.
Please be clear with your reports, again. This area of communication we need to work on alot.
Calling Targets: Most of the time, only the leaders should be calling out what targets to focus fire. Do not call out during the middle of the battle about this enemy or that. YOU CAN MENTION targets you think might also be healers or key targets, but unless the leader says to focus them, do as the leader says first and foremost.
The leader should try their best to identify the healer of the enemy group FIRST, and announce who they are so we can all kill him first. This isint always possible, so that is where mentioning the important targets comes into play if the leader hasint identified a target yet. HEre's an example of how that might go in vent.
Leader: "Attack the front lines."
Player: "Furrykittyweeaboo is the healer."
Leader: "Everyone focus Furrykittyweeaboo."
At that point everyone should listen to the leaders command and switch targets if able.
(For Healers) Call out when your under attack!: We may not have a full healer class in our grouping yet, but this is important to keep in mind for when we do, and for that person/s that is healing. If you are being focused, INFORM the group. You are a key part of everyone staying alive, and you cant keep people alive if your dead. IF you are being attacked and call out in vent, that should be an automatic que for everyone to drop their current targets, and kill whatever is attacking you ASAP. The leader can call out this command, but this should be an automatic reaction that shouldint need a leader telling people to protect the healer. We may have to rely on the leader calling out "Protect Healingmuffins!" at first, but in time it can become an automatic reaction.
Group Roles: Where should you be and what should you be doing in a fight? Well first we have a basic party set up.
Set up: Though we dont have all the classes to fill in ALL of these spots yet, a typical and solid group should be made up almost like a dungeon group.
1 Tank
1 Healer
3 DPS
An off healer and off tank are good to have with a raid.
Tank: What use are you fighting players who wont stick to you if you taunt them like a mob? Your the front line, the wall so to speak, the damage sponge that should be leading the charge and taking the first hits. If the enemy isint communicating or isint as organized, you will be the target everyone will focus on if your first in line, and if you can take the hits? Good! Thats less damage hitting your killing DPS and healers. Your ment to annoy and soak DPS more than to kill, so you wont always be leading the focus fire. A tank should be a bit more dynamic with their targetting rather than focus fire anyways, as you will be alive longest to cause the most trouble, making it easier for the group to kill the enemy. If the healer is under fire? Move to protect them!
Healer: You guessed it, you heal. And heal. And heal. And heal. You should not be DPSing at all if you are a FULL HEALER CLASS. Trying to DPS at all at that point is a waste of time you could be spending keeping the rest of the group alive. You should be positioned towards the MIDDLE of the group. Not in front where it's easy for the enemys to charge you. Not in the back where it's easy for the stealthers to stab you. Do not stand in one spot if you can help it, it makes your role a bit more obvious if you do. And IMMEDIANTLY call out in vent if you are under attack by a player. We cant always protect you if we dont know your in need in the heat of battle.
DPS (Melee): Near and dear to my heart... Melee dps should be behind/to the side of the tank as movement progresses, and hover mostly together with the group while attacking (Unless your a stealther shanking the enemy healers in the back.) Very simple. Always switch targets to protect the healer if the healer is under attack, and never break off from the group to run off on your own.
DPS (Ranged): Your likely going to be a bit more squishy than melee dps, so your position in a group should be in the backlines, attacking from a safer distance with your melee and tank allies your line of protection, and with a view of the status of the healer. You may be the ones vulnerable to possible back attacks, but a group can loose DPS before it looses a healer. If your back lines are under attack, you can call it out for the leader's information, but as mentioned above, keep the info breif. Let the leader choose what to do with the backline attackers. Until then, move to avoid back line attackers, disable and evade if neccisary, but try to keep focused.
PHEW! That was alot of words. Feel free to add thoughts or additional information. This is not perfect advice, and a battle is an everchanging thing. I will never be able to cover what to do in every single situation because there are so many. These are simply general rules me, and groups I have PvP'd in as small as 3 to as large as 46 have followed. I have rode into battle with a high rate of victory with these rules in play in games like Warhammer and Guild Wars 2.
So rather than cover a few of our problem areas, might as well share everything I know, and every strategy and general rule of PvP i'v known and followed.
Movement:
This was the easiest thing for me to pick up on, but it may be hard for others, especially with the dreaded tunnel vision (I'll talk about that later)
Stay with the leader: As a group, there should always be a designated leader and a sub leader for a group. The rest of the group will always, ALWAYS stay with these members unless otherwise stated. That means sticking together. That means no wandering off, it means no chasing targets away from the group, it means staying as what we are, a -group-. This makes it easier to know whats going on, easier to keep everyone alive and accounted for, and keeps us at our FULLEST force for whatever may come our way, expected or unexpected. You need ALL hands on deck, especially for a nasty surprise. Breaking from the group dosint help the group.
-BUT! There's an exception to this.-
Stealthers and designated scouts can extend from the group as needed, but NEVER TOO FAR. And of course, NEVER if the leader does not want the stealthers/scouts away from the group. Unless it's a special case, the stealthers should only be extending from the group enough to get behind enemy lines, and either disable/silence or kill the backline enemy casters or healers. Depending on the number of enemys, a single stealther shouldint bother with backlines unless they are POSITIVE they can QUICKLY kill the key target healer/caster.
Never Charge Alone: It requires communication to make a proper charge as a group, do not charge alone and expect everyone else in the group to be behind you. Alot is going on in the heat of battle, people most likely wont notice your movement as a que for all of the to follow, before assuming your just moving normally in battle. Let the leader call when to charge forward.
Wait for group members for regrouping: So we wiped? Thats no good, time to get back together and attack again! But respawning can sometimes take varying times for different people, and one or two may still be trying to escape the loosing battle or dieing. If you respawn ahead of others, DO NOT immediantly ride off back to the fray. You will most likely meet the enemy again, alone. Then you just die needlessly. Throwing yourself at the enemy alone helps no one, and if the rest of the group moves to take the enemy? Well they are one short because you died ahead of them and are respawning again. DO NOT move out to attack an enemy again until the group has reformed and everyone is together. The leader or sub leader of the group should make sure everyone is respawned and together before heading out.
Never over-extend:(We need to work on this!) This is the easiest mistake to make, and it is easily the death of many in pvp. It's sooooo easy to get lost in tunnel vision, blood lust, lack of awareness. Dont let that happen. Some people may not have a problem with this, others may have to actively stop themselves. You cannot afford to let yourself run away from others. Dont let enemys -LURE- you away either. Thats exactily what they want you to do. A lone target is easier to kill than someone in a group of people. It may be harder to resist the bloodlust/tunnel vision in the heat of battle as someone is running away, but you can stop yourself. If there's a decent sized battle going on and an enemy that is nearly dead is running from you? Consider that he may not be worth chasing down and leaving the battle for. IF the group wipes the rest of the group, the lone deserter will die shortly after anyways. >
COMMUNICATION:
The fact that we are in vent already gives us an advantage, but we need to be smart with how we speak during pvp.
Minimal talking except for leaders: When shit is expected to hit the fan, or IS hitting the fan, chatter should be MINIMAL to avoid confusion. A Leader should be designated to call out commands during the battle, such as target this person, move here, fall back here, or protect this person. No other extra information should be thrown out there. It seriously will confuse the rest of us in a quickly changing situation.
But again! There are a few points where you SHOULD speak up!
IF YOU DIE, please, please PLEASE state that you are down. Only once. No need to repeat it unless we have someone who can rez, and you think the person may not have heard you.
If you see an unexpected surprise, such as another enemy group coming up from behind, CALL IT OUT! And do it WITH AS LITTLE DESCRIPTION AS POSSIBLE. Make it short, sweet and to the point. Like such: "Another group of reds coming in behind!" If someone else has already called out something important, dont repeat it, it just add un-needed chatter at that point.
Please be clear with your reports, again. This area of communication we need to work on alot.
Calling Targets: Most of the time, only the leaders should be calling out what targets to focus fire. Do not call out during the middle of the battle about this enemy or that. YOU CAN MENTION targets you think might also be healers or key targets, but unless the leader says to focus them, do as the leader says first and foremost.
The leader should try their best to identify the healer of the enemy group FIRST, and announce who they are so we can all kill him first. This isint always possible, so that is where mentioning the important targets comes into play if the leader hasint identified a target yet. HEre's an example of how that might go in vent.
Leader: "Attack the front lines."
Player: "Furrykittyweeaboo is the healer."
Leader: "Everyone focus Furrykittyweeaboo."
At that point everyone should listen to the leaders command and switch targets if able.
(For Healers) Call out when your under attack!: We may not have a full healer class in our grouping yet, but this is important to keep in mind for when we do, and for that person/s that is healing. If you are being focused, INFORM the group. You are a key part of everyone staying alive, and you cant keep people alive if your dead. IF you are being attacked and call out in vent, that should be an automatic que for everyone to drop their current targets, and kill whatever is attacking you ASAP. The leader can call out this command, but this should be an automatic reaction that shouldint need a leader telling people to protect the healer. We may have to rely on the leader calling out "Protect Healingmuffins!" at first, but in time it can become an automatic reaction.
Group Roles: Where should you be and what should you be doing in a fight? Well first we have a basic party set up.
Set up: Though we dont have all the classes to fill in ALL of these spots yet, a typical and solid group should be made up almost like a dungeon group.
1 Tank
1 Healer
3 DPS
An off healer and off tank are good to have with a raid.
Tank: What use are you fighting players who wont stick to you if you taunt them like a mob? Your the front line, the wall so to speak, the damage sponge that should be leading the charge and taking the first hits. If the enemy isint communicating or isint as organized, you will be the target everyone will focus on if your first in line, and if you can take the hits? Good! Thats less damage hitting your killing DPS and healers. Your ment to annoy and soak DPS more than to kill, so you wont always be leading the focus fire. A tank should be a bit more dynamic with their targetting rather than focus fire anyways, as you will be alive longest to cause the most trouble, making it easier for the group to kill the enemy. If the healer is under fire? Move to protect them!
Healer: You guessed it, you heal. And heal. And heal. And heal. You should not be DPSing at all if you are a FULL HEALER CLASS. Trying to DPS at all at that point is a waste of time you could be spending keeping the rest of the group alive. You should be positioned towards the MIDDLE of the group. Not in front where it's easy for the enemys to charge you. Not in the back where it's easy for the stealthers to stab you. Do not stand in one spot if you can help it, it makes your role a bit more obvious if you do. And IMMEDIANTLY call out in vent if you are under attack by a player. We cant always protect you if we dont know your in need in the heat of battle.
DPS (Melee): Near and dear to my heart... Melee dps should be behind/to the side of the tank as movement progresses, and hover mostly together with the group while attacking (Unless your a stealther shanking the enemy healers in the back.) Very simple. Always switch targets to protect the healer if the healer is under attack, and never break off from the group to run off on your own.
DPS (Ranged): Your likely going to be a bit more squishy than melee dps, so your position in a group should be in the backlines, attacking from a safer distance with your melee and tank allies your line of protection, and with a view of the status of the healer. You may be the ones vulnerable to possible back attacks, but a group can loose DPS before it looses a healer. If your back lines are under attack, you can call it out for the leader's information, but as mentioned above, keep the info breif. Let the leader choose what to do with the backline attackers. Until then, move to avoid back line attackers, disable and evade if neccisary, but try to keep focused.
PHEW! That was alot of words. Feel free to add thoughts or additional information. This is not perfect advice, and a battle is an everchanging thing. I will never be able to cover what to do in every single situation because there are so many. These are simply general rules me, and groups I have PvP'd in as small as 3 to as large as 46 have followed. I have rode into battle with a high rate of victory with these rules in play in games like Warhammer and Guild Wars 2.